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Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the podcast where science meets nature to celebrate the story of your skin.
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Your skin is a living canvas, ever evolving, deeply personal and uniquely yours.
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Each week, we'll dive into the science of healthy skin, share empowering stories and uncover transformative self-care rituals.
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We're here to help you embrace every phase of your journey with confidence and care.
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Hi everyone, Welcome to this week's episode of Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin.
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I'm your host, Dr Jen Haley, and on this week's episode I have Ashley.
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Hello, she glammed me up today.
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All of you who know me know that I am a tomboy.
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I run out the door with a little bit of tinted sunscreen, so I'm looking quite glammed today, thanks to Ashley.
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She looks beautiful.
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If you guys are watching the clip, just know she looks amazing.
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Thank you, Ashley.
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So in your job, you often make people look and feel better than they might feel on their own.
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We want to dive into that and what that means to most people, but before we get started, I want to understand from your perspective as a makeup artist, something that I know nothing about and I get a lot of questions on.
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What can people do regarding their skincare in order to make their makeup preparation work a little bit better?
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I would say the most important thing is exfoliation because, as we know, throughout the day our face tends to just build up oil and all these things.
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So when a client comes to me, the first thing I ask them is have you exfoliated today?
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When was the last time you washed your face?
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That's always the first question.
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And if they've been running around, you know running errands, or they've been out of the house for a while and I could tell that you know there's just the day is sitting on their face.
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Basically the day is sitting on their face.
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Basically, um, the first thing I will do is take an exfoliating pad and wipe all of that off, because your makeup's not going to look as good or last as long with all of these pre-existing oils and on your face.
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So I think that's the most important thing, um, moisturize, and I wouldn't say I would actually ask my clients to not come to me with their skincare because some products don't work well with certain skincare products.
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So I'd rather you come exfoliated, tell me what your skin type is like and I'll do the rest for you.
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Okay, this is so good to know.
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And now I understand why you asked me if you could take my stuff off before we started and I was like no, don't take my tinted sunscreen off.
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Okay, so this morning I cleansed, I applied my vitamin C product, then I applied an enzyme exfoliant and then my tinted sunscreen.
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So do you think my makeup would have sat better if I did not, if I allowed you to take it all off beforehand?
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No, um, it looks great while I'm looking at you.
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It does look great, Everyone does Um if, during the process, I noticed certain things weren't sitting right or starting to get splotchy, I would have been like, hey, jen, I think we should take that off, and I would have probably asked you again if we could put a makeup wipe to your face.
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It kind of just depends, because maybe what you put on under your skin did work well with my products, which it looks like it did.
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So I mean, I kind of just kept going with it, but had I noticed it didn't, we would have had to have that conversation.
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Okay, oh, I love this so much.
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This is great because, I mean, I've been a board certified dermatologist for over 20 years and I get asked so many questions about makeup and I just don't even know how to answer them.
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And what you're saying about exfoliating makes complete sense from a physiological perspective, because we have these dead keratinocytes, like we have the dead skin cells on our skin, and the makeup is not going to apply evenly if those aren't exfoliated.
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So I mean, I always wonder where we draw the line between too much exfoliation and not enough exfoliation.
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And it's really when somebody starts to get irritated.
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Is that what you see?
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I think so too yeah, and I don't, I don't over exfoliate, I don't do anything crazy, I just they're like tiny little exfoliating pads and I hand them to my client and I'm like just, you know, wipe your face.
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It's, it's very, it's very surface level.
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It's not anything too deep or penetrating, um, but it does.
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It works wonders for me.
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I have seen my clients come in and I forget to use it on them and then I'll do their makeup again and I will use the exfoliating pad and I'm like night and day between the two of how their makeup looked in photos or throughout the day.
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And they'll tell me too.
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I love that exfoliating pad you gave me.
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It made such a big difference.
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So exfoliation, it's like the number one thing.
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I always tell my clients please exfoliate before you come see me, if you can.
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If not, I'll take care of you as you have, yeah.
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As you have.
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So, okay, this this is a common question regarding exfoliation, because people often don't exfoliate enough to your point, and then some people overdo it as well.
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So if you're at home and you're listening and you're wondering, like, how much is enough exfoliation, it's going to change depending on the season, your menstrual cycle, where you live.
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Like our body changes.
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It's a moving target and it changes all the time.
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So if your skin is burning or peeling or red, you're exfoliating too much, and if it looks dry and dull and your makeup is not staying, then you're not exfoliating it enough, and what works one week might not work the next week.
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So listen to your skin by Moon and Skin.
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Okay, so what are the key steps that everybody should take before applying makeup?
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Like, are there certain ingredients you want people to use on their skin before makeup, certain ingredients you want people to avoid before makeup, besides just making sure they're exfoliated?
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You know, whatever works for you.
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I always say like don't fix something if it's not broken.
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So if someone comes and asks me for advice, I will recommend them products based off of what I know from what they're telling me about their skin.
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But I don't really try to advise someone to do something when I don't really know.
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You know what they're using at home or what their skin is like, unless they're sitting in my chair, which I only see them for an hour or so.
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But I'm able to give good advice.
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I just try to tailor it to the person and what they're asking me.
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But if no one's really asking me, I try to just stay out of that conversation.
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Um, because I'm not trying to be the reason.
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Someone like breaks out or hates a product or whatever it is.
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So right, that's kind of my take on that.
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Um, but yeah, do you um?
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do you have recommendations for specific makeup lines that you think are cleaner or that are less likely to cause breakouts and clogging of pores?
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100 there%, there are so many and especially if someone were to come to me and tell me I have sensitive skin.
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I have three lines that I will gravitate towards the most and one especially.
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I don't know that I want to like, say names or but one especially.
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I've had four different clients tell me that they're actually allergic to not the clean uh, clear skin like brands, but a very well-known in Sephora brand.
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There's a specific product in there that four of my clients are allergic to and I took that completely out of my kit, like everything in that in that line.
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Um, just because some people don't know, these, four of my clients do know the other hundred hundred of them might not know.
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Um, but yeah, definitely, if someone comes to me the.
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My second question after have you exfoliated, do you have sensitive skin?
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And if the answer is yes, I know exactly what products I'm reaching for.
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You can name them.
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I can name them.
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Yeah, we want to give people some usable information.
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I love Rare Beauty Rare.
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Beauty is such a clean brand.
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What about Ilia?
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I've been using Ilia.
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Say Beauty I think brand, um what other?
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brands.
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What about ilia?
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I've been using ilia.
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Say beauty.
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I think they don't really say say yeah, s-a-i-e.
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I don't know if they market themselves to be like a clean makeup brand, but I absolutely love their products.
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None of my clients have had any ish like.
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If anything, they'll come back and be like what was that that you used on my face?
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And it's always.
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It's always say or rare beauty.
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Is that what you used on me today?
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I did use a say Yep, I like it, yeah, okay, okay.
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So that's I mean the one.
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The one thing I want to mention about sensitive skin or somebody who develops an allergic contact dermatitis to a product.
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I often will see a problem with this before it can't be my makeup, and what happens with contact dermatitis is the first time.
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Even if we come into contact with poison ivy, which is like the gold standard of what a contact dermatitis looks like is, you won't have a reaction to it, and then, the more we come into contact with an ingredient, there are certain types of ingredients like acrylates, which can be found in nails or glue, or probably like the fake eyelash glue.
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Yeah, the adhesive yeah, the adhesive, thank you.
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The acrylates are a common issue.
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We even see them in Apple Watches and all sorts of different things.
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But with preservatives in makeup which we want preservatives so that they don't go bad and have mold on them and all sorts of other problems we can develop allergies to them over years.
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So you can use something for 10 years and not have any problems and then year number 11, you can develop an allergy to it.
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So that's why it's important to realize that your skin isn't static.
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It's a dynamic living organism that basically can develop allergies to things.
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So it's good to be aware of what's out there.
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So you mentioned sensitive skin, but what about if someone has oily or dry skin?
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What would they do differently with their makeup application?
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I try to take care of that with the type of primers that I use.
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So if someone tells me that they're oily, I love the milk hydro grip primer, I'll normally reach for that.
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And powders I know people try to stay away from them because they can settle into fine lines.
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But if you're greasy I recommend maybe just putting on a little more powder during that step of the application.
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Those are like my two main things, and most of the times clients will come back to me who grease after an hour and say like hey, my makeup was on for 16 hours and I didn't even have to blot and it was because of those two things.
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Okay, so I'm going to keep coming back to me because I'm I don't wear this much makeup normally and I'm fascinated by what you do.
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So because I'm more oily in the T zone and drier on the periphery is, did you put the milk primer on the periphery and more powder centrally?
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So because you've already had preexisting the tinted sunscreen.
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I didn't know how that was going to react with the primer, so I use the more powder option and I did.
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I used a little more on the T-zone, but also I tried to not use too much underneath the eyes because we don't want that settling into fine lines.
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So I was very careful with my powder placement when it came to you to try to make sure this area doesn't grease.
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Are you saying I have a lot of fine lines in that area?
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No, no, no, we all do.
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I do, oh my gosh Even and you know, a question that people ask me often is when I do start to get these lines.
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After you know an hour or so of my makeup sitting on my face, what do I do?
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Because it's just normal that these lines are going, the makeup's gonna settle in and we all have lines.
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My biggest tip is to never, ever, take a brush, put more product in it on it and put that on your face, because that's only going to penetrate deeper into those lines and make them look more visible.
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I would take a brush with absolutely nothing on it and kind of just wiggle it back and forth and what that's going to do is move the powder that's already there, that's settling into those lines and kind of make everything look a little more cohesive in that area.
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So I do that every hour or so yeah, I like that.
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I mean it makes sense because you know we're making faces and micro expressions and as we do that, the powder's falling into the creases, which is natural and normal, and we want that right yeah and okay.
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So as opposed to applying more powder and having more opportunity for those to fall into the creases, we're just blending together what's there as a touch-up through the day exactly okay, and then I noticed you applied setting spray.
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What is setting spray and what does that do?
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And does do people use that every day or a special occasion kind of thing?
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um, I would every day or a special occasion kind of thing.
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I would say more of a special occasion type of thing.
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You can use it every day if you notice that your makeup does tend to not last as long.
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But I love setting spray and I'm going to shout out one size until dawn setting spray, that's what I used on you.
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It's basically a hairspray for your face and you know, you had that little reaction where you're like oh my gosh, I wasn't expecting that.
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Um, I think it's so important because it just takes it to the next level.
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When I finish doing someone's makeup, I want to make sure that they're happy with it the same way they are sitting in my chair in that exact moment throughout the rest of the day, and that the setting sprays is really what you know goes a long way.
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I have had clients leave and I'll text them and I'll be like I forgot to spray you and if they're still in the area, they'll come right back.
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I'll spray them really quickly and then they'll go about their date or they're like thank you so much for telling me like I'll spray at home.
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I think it's so important.
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So love a setting spray so it just sorts of holds it.
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It holds it in place.
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What if I went and I if I go and sweat?
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It's not going to quite work, or it will endure a little bit, but not a lot.
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So this specific setting spray went viral on tiktok because there was a girl who I forget if she jumped in a pool or like was in labor or whatever it was and her face did not move.
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And that is what made that specific setting spray take off.
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Because I think actually it was both things it was one girl jumping into a pool and another girl was like let's see how this works, I'm about to have a baby and their faces looked incredible.
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So I guess it just depends.
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I've never tried it out.
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I have it on my face right now.
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I could go home and I don't know, maybe I'll get back to you on that one.
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I may jump in a pool, but I'm not gonna go through labor with this.
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Yeah right, I've already been there, that's enough that's great.
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Okay, that's great.
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Yeah, I really love that.
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Um okay.
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So let's jump into some of the biggest mistakes that you see people make.
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I'm sure I've done all of them biggest mistakes, as in prior to makeup application or just in general, anything like that you notice that people do to negatively affect their makeup, maybe applying the wrong products, applying it incorrectly yeah to, like, maybe offset their, their greatest asset?
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um, using things in combination that shouldn't be used in combination with.
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I mean, I'm just making things up, so I was actually going to touch on that is.
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Some people will say certain products don't work well together, and that's because those products probably don't work well together because of what they're made of.
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So you have to look at what each product.
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Is it like a water-based product?
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Is it an oil-based product?
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Is it a silicone-based product?
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Let's say you have a water-based foundation with a silicone based primer.
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Those two might not or sorry, they might work better as if opposed if it were an oil-based primer and then a water-based foundation.
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So not many people.
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I'm a makeup artist so I have to do this because I need to know what works best in my kit on a day-to-day.
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Do I want my clients going and researching you know what exactly is in their products?
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You don't have to.
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But if you notice it's not working, then I would say try to figure out why.
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And is it because of what ingredients are in your foundation versus your primer, versus your powder?
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Are they just not working well together?
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And that's kind of how you figure that out.
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Okay, so I don't know what a primer versus a foundation versus a powder is.
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As you know, when I walked in here today, I wear a tinted sunscreen and then maybe some blush.
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So what are these different steps that people could be doing at home?
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so I always say we can start prior to applying any makeup on your face.
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I always say, if you're at home about to do your makeup, let's wash your face, exfoliate, moisturize.
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If you're oily, or let's say you're not even oily and you would just rather look a little bit more dewy a primer is where you can kind of fix, you know, make yourself look the way you want to look.
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If you want to look more matte towards the end, we'll use a mattifying primer.
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If you want to look more dewy towards the end, we'll use a dewy primer.
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And this is all before we put any foundation or makeup on our face.
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So that's primer is right before foundation, and then I would go in with a layer of foundation.
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So you kind of have to make sure those two things will work well together, because they're the first products you're putting on your face and then after that, uh, concealer.
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I mean I don't really see a difference of which kind of concealer you use.
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I think the main three things people should focus on if they don't like the way their skin looks are primer, foundation and powder.
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Do the three that you're using work well together and if you feel like they're not, they probably aren't and to take care of that first okay, that makes good sense, okay.
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So, besides that, what are other mistakes that you see?
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People like just say we're sitting at the mall or we're walking in a shopping center.
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I mean, I, I notice things about people because of what I do for a living, like I'll notice birthmarks or funny moles or things that look like a skin cancer, um all sorts of things, because there's over 3 000 diagnoses in dermatology.
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So I'm I know you're asking me what do I?
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Yeah, what do you notice?
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What do?
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you notice, like mistakes that people do wrong, you know, or maybe trends that have gone bad.
00:17:10.517 --> 00:17:14.590
Trends that have gone bad definitely, I would say, maybe over contouring.
00:17:14.590 --> 00:17:16.535
So what is contouring?
00:17:16.535 --> 00:17:29.346
Contouring is when you take a bronzer, a darker shade, and you kind of place it in the areas that you want to enhance your cheekbones, your forehead, to make it a little shorter yep, right here on your neck, like your chin.
00:17:29.346 --> 00:17:33.051
But it can be taken a little overboard.
00:17:33.051 --> 00:17:45.732
I hate when I see like the sharpest line and it's orange, and then you know the rest of someone's face is like a your skin's, not orange, it's either, you know, like fair, medium tan, whatever it is.
00:17:45.732 --> 00:17:54.135
I don't like seeing that harsh line, that discrepancy between the the bronzer or the contour or even the blush.
00:17:54.135 --> 00:18:06.034
I think it's very important to kind of you can put these things on your face in the areas that you want them and then after that, let's, let's marry them they're dating and then let's, let's marry the products.
00:18:06.034 --> 00:18:07.465
Together is my type of thing.
00:18:07.465 --> 00:18:11.134
So I guess that's what I noticed is when products on someone's face aren't married.
00:18:11.435 --> 00:18:12.866
I would say I like that.
00:18:12.866 --> 00:18:13.449
That's a good term.
00:18:13.449 --> 00:18:14.894
Yeah, we definitely want to get things married.
00:18:14.973 --> 00:18:15.234
Yeah.
00:18:17.464 --> 00:18:18.566
OK, yeah, that's interesting.
00:18:18.566 --> 00:18:24.231
And as you're talking, I'm thinking when we see ourselves in the mirror, we see ourselves two-dimensionally.
00:18:24.231 --> 00:18:37.267
So we might be like, and it looks good two-dimensionally, but in real live action those sort of very contrasting colors and shades don't look, could be too harsh.
00:18:37.267 --> 00:18:39.535
Yeah, like in a, an actionable way.
00:18:39.535 --> 00:18:41.201
It just doesn't look realistic.
00:18:41.300 --> 00:18:42.945
So that's that's great, okay.
00:18:42.945 --> 00:18:59.334
Another thing I would say too, as far as like mistakes go when someone's wanting to do their own makeup for an event or to go out and they'll come to me like well, I need you to do my makeup because it doesn't look how it looks when you do it, what do you do?
00:18:59.334 --> 00:19:00.857
How do you get it to look that way?
00:19:00.857 --> 00:19:05.685
Because when I put it on makeup, it doesn't look like it's glam or it doesn't really show up in photos.
00:19:05.685 --> 00:19:08.298
And my biggest advice is you're probably not using enough product, especially like it's glam or it doesn't really show up in photos.
00:19:08.298 --> 00:19:12.737
And my biggest advice is you're probably not using enough product, especially if it's for that special occasion.
00:19:12.737 --> 00:19:16.128
Uh, pictures tend to wash things out.
00:19:16.249 --> 00:19:19.376
So if you're, I see people, you know I'm like well, how much foundation do you use?
00:19:19.376 --> 00:19:19.826
Not just.
00:19:19.826 --> 00:19:21.569
And they'll pump once.
00:19:21.569 --> 00:19:25.005
And I'm like, okay, so let's go through what I'm doing for you and I'll start pumping.
00:19:25.005 --> 00:19:33.530
And I'm like one, two, three, five, and I just see my client's eyes like expanding and I'm like that's how much it takes for you to look how you look when you leave my chair.
00:19:33.530 --> 00:19:38.334
So, just so they kind of get an idea If you're not liking the way it looks in photos and special occasions.
00:19:38.334 --> 00:19:40.276
You probably just need a little more.
00:19:40.276 --> 00:19:41.476
I would play around with it.
00:19:41.476 --> 00:19:45.878
I wouldn't just do it an hour before your event and leave the house, maybe like experiment.
