WEBVTT
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Welcome to Listen to your Skin by Moon and Skin, the podcast where science meets nature to celebrate the story of your skin.
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Your skin is a living canvas, ever evolving, deeply personal and uniquely yours.
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Each week, we'll dive into the science of healthy skin, share empowering stories and uncover transformative self-care rituals.
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We're here to help you embrace every phase of your journey with confidence and care.
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Okay, jen, we are here today because I need to come clean with my following.
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Everyone keeps asking me not everyone, but a significant number of people have asked me about my skincare routine, and I have to.
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I am chuckling because I've had literally no skincare routine, I mean, unless you count tallow, which, luckily, I met you and you were able to educate me on why I didn't want to use that on my skin and, you know, started thinking I should probably you know, I'm over 50 now I should probably have a routine.
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The only thing I've done consistently is glycolic acid, you know, surface level.
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That's the only thing I've consistently done since I was 30.
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Cause I did see a dermatologist this was before my son was born, you know and he helped me develop a routine and I was kind of using that, but then I just that was the only thing that stuck.
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And so luckily we met and I was using the tallow and it was causing quite a bit of like little bumps.
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You know, milia, here I noticed when I stopped using it those kind of went down a little bit.
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So that was, you know, grateful.
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But I really was hoping to come up with something and luckily you started working with Moon and Skin and formulating this great product.
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So I've been like anxiously awaiting so that I can, like, have a grown up you know skincare routine.
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I feel so like mature now and like ladylike to have that.
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So, yeah, I was hoping we could talk a lot, a lot about it actually, cause I don't know all these things.
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I just am like, oh, whatever, put whatever on my skin.
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It's all more about, like, what I eat.
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I think that's more important and I think you've helped educate me in showing me, like, well, what you eat.
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Yes, but if you add some stuff to the outside, you can really you know, turbocharge, I suppose, or I don't know amp it up.
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Definitely Okay.
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You brought up so many good points so well when we first met.
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It's because obviously I valued all the work that you did from an inside-out approach and I've seen so many people over the years that have just looked at topical skin care only and they haven't addressed what they were doing in their lifestyle and you have to really look at the skin as an inside-out organ.
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So I think you got away with so much for so long and not doing skin care because you live such a beautiful life where you have really good food in your diet and you do the essential things that are necessary.
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But I also think it's such a low hanging fruit not to do skincare.
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So I just like I happened to meet you by listening to you on one of our friends podcast.
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Angela Foster and I reached out to you because I'm like, oh, the world is too valuable to not connect with people who you're supposed to connect with.
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I think.
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Also serendipitously, I met the other founders at Moon and Skin and we aligned in, like the way we look at nature and looking at the science and the remedies that nature provide us, and how can we best work in sync and in harmony with that in our own skin, in our own lives, whether it's educating people on how to take care of themselves from the inside out or using the power of nature and the ingredients that I was lucky enough to work with some brilliant formulators and coming up with these products.
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You know I'd say I want this ingredient and this ingredient because I know the science behind it, and they'd say, oh well, you know, these plants contain these ingredients that would really balance the harmful effects of retinol.
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You know, let's add some antioxidants or some anti-inflammatory ingredients that come from nature, whether it's centella asiatica or green tea or jojoba, all sorts of things that are in the formulation.
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And they also saw.
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They saw things similar to me as far as the fact that, as a woman, our skin changes every day throughout our cycle.
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What we use in the morning is going to be different from what we use in the evening.
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And then the seasons of life, so when you're 30, yeah, you can get away with just doing glycolic acid, and even if you have a polyphenol rich diet, you can get away with not even using sunscreen, because your sun is your skin is protected from the inside out, but after 35 are epigenetics.
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The choices we make make a bigger difference.
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So by incorporating skincare, you're just going to nourish your skin from the outside in in addition to the inside out.
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I don't want people to forget about both of those Like both of those are essential components and I've seen so many people over the years reach for procedures and reach for answers from the dermatologist without doing the stuff at home.
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It's like going to the dentist and getting your teeth cleaned and then not brushing your teeth for a whole year.
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It just doesn't make sense, and that's how I look at skincare.
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Yeah, and I love what you said Cause, like that's like I'm about.
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I'm going to take some supplements, but I like to use, you know, vegetables and cause.
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I think, well, they're going to have all the I don't know, like everything's going to work synergistically together somehow when you're getting a, what do you say, like a vitamin from a plant, versus just getting it from a supplement.
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There's something about that.
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So I love that.
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That's what's in here.
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I think that's really, really key.
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Okay, so I have so many questions.
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Can I just?
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talk about the beef tallow really.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so you brought up the beef tallow, and it's not that I hate beef tallow.
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There are some products that have beef tallow and I think they do a fairly good job using the concepts of beef tallow.
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But the issue with beef tallow alone in itself is that it's occlusive, so it blocks, let's just say, the pores, it holds in your moisture.
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It doesn't allow moisture or anything to really penetrate.
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And then, like the vitamin A and the other, like nutrients that are in beef tallow, they're not formulated in a way that's going to pass through the skin.
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So our skin is meant to protect us from the outside world, so it's not actually very good at allowing things to get absorbed.
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So you have to have someone who knows how to formulate and while I'm a dermatologist and I know the ingredients and the science behind ingredients, I don't know how to formulate.
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I can say I want X ingredient and Y ingredient, but you need a good cosmetic chemist that understands how to put those together in a way that's going to deliver it to where it needs to be in the skin and use certain technology, like liposomal technology, like we have in the retinol, so that the retinol can actually get to where it needs to be in the skin to do the job to renew and turn over the skin cells without irritating the skin.
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Okay, that makes sense to me.
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I mean, it's just so interesting.
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It's like you know, I've been just going from the inside out and now finally kind of just adding that outside in.
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Maybe if I had done this earlier wouldn't you know.
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anyway, but it's never too late, I know right, it's like never too late to start.
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I've had people.
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I mean, we know your biological age is what?
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36?
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I don't know.
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I mean, and your skin age, I mean the first thing people are going to say is she doesn't look 36.
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And you're right, I don't.
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So you know, but I don't think I look 56, you know, but I think it's energy.
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Like we all have energy that we walk around.
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The wisdom energy makes us look older, no matter what we look, two-dimensionally, you know, and I've seen your two-dimensional photos and they're pretty hot, so so, okay, well, so let's talk about, like skin care for somebody in menopause, like what needs to change, like why I mean why?
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I mean we've kind of talked about why, or maybe we've only touched on why it needs to change, but what does it need to change to?
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Like why?
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Like I mean, I've clearly I've noticed my skin has gotten drier for sure, like that's, you know, a problem for me, but because it's definitely always been pretty oily my whole life and it used to be pretty bumpy, but the glycolic acid is what keeps it from kind of being so bumpy, which is why I've used it.
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But yeah, that's the only like.
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What else do I need to be thinking about?
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Sure.
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Yeah, so during menopause, we'll talk about these products in a second.
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I'll address the menopause, because these products are a core program.
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So we want to build everything off of a strong foundation and then we can move things in and out depending on where we are in our cycle or the time of year or what stage of life we're in.
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Right, but I formulated these products so that they're a core foundation.
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They're like the core for the core, for products that anyone can use, and then we can add in a little extra glycolic acid if you like it.
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My skin doesn't like glycolic acid because, I have very rosacea prone skin.
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But one thing to your point that holds true for women in menopause is like as the estrogen declines, so in our twenties we start losing about 1% of our collagen per year and we don't really notice it until we're like perimenopause, we might notice like a little more sagging, usually around the jaw and the neck and the eyes.
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And then during menopause, when our collagen really drops, our estrogen really drops, our collagen also drops by like 30% within the first five years after menopause.
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So, losing that estrogen, we drop our collagen and our elastic tissue.
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And then something called GAGs, which are glycosaminoglycans, which are kind of the glue that holds the whole part of our dermis together and makes it supple, and that's why we get really really dry and we get kind of sallow looking and dehydrated skin.
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So obviously estrogen is important to maintain.
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If we can do that either topically or systemically is the best.
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But what we want to really focus on as well is enhancing cell turnover during that time, because the stem cells at the bottom of the epidermis they get lazy and they don't turn over as quickly and the top layer of skin, it basically sticks on longer and doesn't exfoliate and doesn't get stimulated to make fresh stem cells.
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Likewise, as you know, in your longevity world we get more senescent cells build up, we get all of those senescent zombie cells built up and the fibroblasts and the dermis don't make as much collagen over time.
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So these are addressed internally through fasting and all of the other things that you teach your audience, and also topically.
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We have ways to induce this with the use of retinols to boost collagen, with vitamin C, which is a cofactor in collagen production, with stem cells that can enhance our own stem cells to produce more skin cells, and also just hydration.
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And actually the moisturizer created by me and the cosmetic chemists with Moon and Skin.
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The moisturizer has low levels of glycolic acid in it, not enough to cause irritation, just enough to loosen up the dead skin cells so that the moisturizer can actually penetrate.
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Because what I see to your point a lot of women, when they're in menopause or perimenopause, or even in the winter months when it's dry, what will happen is they're just slathering on like more and more moisturizer all the time, even oil, and it's not getting to the skin to the point where it can hydrate the skin because the dead skin cells are insulating the stratum corneum is so thick.
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Yeah, it's insulating the skin so much that the moisturizer can't even penetrate, so we want to loosen that off without causing irritation, so we can get the hydration in there.
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Okay, that makes sense.
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They're like they need to leave the party and they're not.
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So like senescent cells.
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It's like it's time to go, guys.
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It's time to go, okay, I love that.
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Well, one other question for you just to follow up with that.
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So if somebody is lucky enough and smart enough to start bioidentical hormones, does that help maintain, you know, skin health a little longer?
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I mean, I'd imagine, even on bioidentical hormones you're still going to start seeing some changes.
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Maybe it slows it down, or like how you know, how do we have studies on that yet, or there's so much we don't know because of the whole women's health initiative and like what actually are people using as hormones?
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like are we using?
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mayor urine or are we using?
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bioidentical estradiol, you know, and there's not.
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I haven't really seen a ton of studies on systemic that's not my area of expertise but topically.
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Topically we do with topical estriol, which is sort of like a weak estradiol, but we have um estrogen beta receptors that are more prominent in the skin that we do see if someone starts it perimenopausal.
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So we could be in perimenopause from 35 to 50.
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I mean for 15 years and getting changes at the cellular level that we're not really recognizing at the clinical level or even within ourselves until we look at an old photo or something right.
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Yeah, I know, trust me, I was looking at photos before Reagan was born.
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I'm like oh my gosh, wow, I want that back.
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But topical estrogen can definitely be used before anybody's in menopause and it helps with fine lines and wrinkles.
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It actually helps with pigmentation, which we sometimes thought that it wouldn't, because melasma is associated with pigmentation, and it helps with the suppleness.
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We haven't seen as much improvement with elasticity with a topical estrogen, but I think there's so much more to be seen and the risks are really low like it's not seen in the blood yeah, so it's worth adding um.
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Yet a good skincare regimen is going to support all the processes that the skin wants to do to repair itself and to protect itself.
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So all the time we're doing two things.
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Number one we're preventing the breakdown of collagen every day by protecting our skin from UV radiation and pollution like basically particulate matter or PMs and environmental toxins from causing free radical damage in the skin.
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And then we're also trying to boost the natural production of our own collagen, whether it's through collagen peptides, hyaluronic acid, good hydration, protein.
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Like I love vegetables, although I find that when people don't have sufficient protein, their skin does not look good because your collagen is made of protein.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
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Lots of pieces.
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And does just eating collagen protein support that you have to have like all the you know, all the essential amino acids, right, Because you can't just have the collagen protein is what I'm getting at.
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You probably need to be having some mix of, you know, whey protein or like somehow getting the balance of those full amino acids, right you?
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know the answer because we have this conversation all the time I know.
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Well, I just want to make sure people know, because you know, I mean, I know that there was at one point I was like, oh, I'm just going to have collagen protein because I found I was kind of sensitive to whey protein.
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And then you know, the doctor's like well, you know, that's not a full, like you're not getting the full coverage, so you need to figure out some other things.
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So I'm like, ok, I'll add eggs and meat you know a few other things to it, but I can't do the whey protein so yeah, I mean, I, I am.
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I am protein forward, and I know you are too.
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We both experienced, uh, and have been vegan for a decade or more and um, we've had our own experiences and you know most.
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The cool thing about these products is most of the ingredients are plant derived.
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Even the hyaluronic is plant.
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The hyaluronic acid is plant derived.
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The stem cells are plant derived, so they're um leap derived, so they're um leaping bunny standards.
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They're cruelty free and leaping bunny standards Okay, Well, let's talk about this.
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So, like I don't, you know we don't have a cleanser, it's coming right, yeah, um, it's a kale protein cleanser, so it's not a soap Is it going to be green.
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No, it's not, and you can't drink it.
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Okay.
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So the cool thing about the cleanser and I know we talked about this because you were noticing your skin was a little bit dry.
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So the biggest mistake I see when people say they have dry skin, whether it's their body or it's their face, before I throw a bunch of things at them I ask them like what are you using to cleanse with?
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Because usually our soap is too drying.
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So soaps have a surfactant which basically binds with the oils in our skin and if it's too harsh it's stripping the oils from our skin and it's breaking down our skin barrier.
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So this cleanser, this kale protein cleanser, it's coconut derived surfactants, so there's not coconut oil which can break out the skin.
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It's a coconut derived surfactant.
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So it's a very mild which can break out the skin.
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It's a coconut derived surfactant.
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So it's a very mild, gentle cleanser and I've tested it out before I approved it, where it cleanses my makeup off and I use like micellar water afterwards and an exfoliating cotton round and I don't have any dirt on it.
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So I know it's getting the dirt off.
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Yeah, that's really great, because I think you had said, like cleanse your face and then, you know, don't put anything on it, and see, you know, and my skin just, you know, tightened, you know.
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So it was just so tight, it's like I have to rush to get the moisturizer on.
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So that's like a good sign, right that your cleanser is a little too drying, 100%, and I'm using a creamy cleanser, so that can still happen with creamy cleansers.
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I'm mad, obviously, right.
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It just depends.
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I mean, I always say, let me see the ingredient list.
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It's like nutrition, you know, when it has certain claims on it, I still want to turn it around and I see, you know, corn syrup, or I see artificial color or flavor like natural flavors.
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I always want to see the ingredient list.
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So even if it's a creamy cleanser, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have harsh things added to it or just something that's not good for your skin type.
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But you should not feel tight.
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There should be no burning.
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There shouldn't be a taut feeling to the skin after you cleanse.
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It should just feel lighter.
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Okay.
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Okay good.
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And the other thing I, just because we're on cleanser, I know that you've talked about cleansing twice at night, like so to get everything off.
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You know, get the makeup off and then you know, rinse and then cleanse again.
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Do you still recommend that too, with even the moon and skin, or yeah, it just depends.
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So I think you and I are kind of minimalist, like we don't wear a lot of makeup.
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Yeah, so most of the days I just wear tinted sunscreen and eye makeup and then I just use the cleanser and I use, I cleanse for two minutes.
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I like people to apply the cleanser like brushing your teeth yeah, exactly like brushing your teeth.
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Flip the timer over.
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Yeah, so apply the cleanser I can't wait for you to try it.
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Apply the cleanser, rub it in with maybe a little bit of water, not so it's dripping.
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Um, you know, use whatever device you have, or just your hands, for a full two minutes so that the ingredients can penetrate into your skin, but massage those, massage your lymphatics and get the product to actually penetrate.
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Otherwise, like you're gonna love this.
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So I actually and I've been doing this for years I went, I think it was like costco or somewhere, and I got um, like 21 washcloths and I use a new washcloth every single night because I was so terrified of like any bacteria breaking, you know, and they're just gentle, I don't.
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You know, I'm not like scrubbing or anything like that, but it was just a nice way to kind of get my makeup off and I don't know, it was just a nice little treat, like I'm like, yeah, that's what I do.
00:19:02.682 --> 00:19:16.846
so when I, I wash them, you know, every week, and then you use them, yeah, I love that because, well, okay, that's a great point, because I think a lot of times people are afraid to touch their face, like they're afraid to rub things around their eyes, but it's sort of a hormetic effect, it's hormesis.
00:19:16.846 --> 00:19:23.973
It's like we're stimulating the face and it's basically responding by regenerating collagen.
00:19:23.973 --> 00:19:29.046
If we just leave it alone and let it hang all day, it's like sitting on your couch all day your muscles will just disintegrate.
00:19:29.046 --> 00:19:39.211
So our skin is meant to have a little bit of stimulation, whether it's stimulation of the lymphatics to move things through more, or stimulation of the collagen, without tearing the elastic fibers to do stuff.
00:19:39.211 --> 00:19:44.522
But going back to cleansing, so if you don't really wear a lot of makeup, one cleanser is enough.
00:19:44.644 --> 00:19:49.261
If you wear a lot of makeup, like I have makeup Like today I'll have, yeah, I'll wash twice, yeah, okay.
00:19:49.281 --> 00:19:56.920
But otherwise, then do an oil-based to get the makeup off and then use an active cleanser with active ingredients.
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:03.103
That's going to benefit your skin and nourish your skin, because a good cleanser put on the skin for two minutes is going to nourish the skin.
00:20:03.103 --> 00:20:07.548
Okay, so the proteins in there do add some nourishment to the skin which is what we want.
00:20:08.008 --> 00:20:23.468
I mean, what I'm kind of realizing now is like I mean, I just never saw it that way before, but the skin is an organ to be taken care of, just like my heart and my brain, and I'm doing, you know, now, I'm like properly supporting this organ and these are.
00:20:23.468 --> 00:20:26.214
This is one over half of the way to do it.
00:20:26.295 --> 00:20:31.671
I suppose it's right just like our hair like we shampoo our hair, we don't expect it to just grow from the inside out and it's dead.
00:20:31.671 --> 00:20:33.608
I know exactly.
00:20:33.608 --> 00:20:35.657
And our skin's a lot of money, I spent on conditioner.
00:20:35.858 --> 00:20:39.005
Okay, okay.
00:20:39.005 --> 00:20:44.134
So then let's talk about after I do that which and I have been playing around with this.
00:20:44.134 --> 00:20:52.824
I love this stem cell C serum because the other thing I've learned from you is that when we start applying products, we go from thinnest to thickest.
00:20:52.824 --> 00:20:54.465
I love that.
00:20:54.465 --> 00:20:56.128
I was like duh, like duh.
00:20:56.128 --> 00:20:59.134
That makes so much sense.
00:20:59.134 --> 00:21:01.003
I've just never thought about it like that.
00:21:01.003 --> 00:21:03.790
So, but I love this vitamin C serum.
00:21:03.790 --> 00:21:18.423
I'm already cause I've only been using it like a week and a half maybe, and I've already noticed just like a brightening to my skin, and I've just I've never used vitamin c serum, so I'm very yeah, let's take it out okay so I know I love.
00:21:18.483 --> 00:21:26.587
I love the way this opens and closes because, like, I go to the gym and so I have to carry it back and forth to the gym, and so I have to carry it back and forth to the gym, and so it stays nice.
00:21:26.587 --> 00:21:29.694
Wait, you put it on at the gym After the shower in the gym.
00:21:29.694 --> 00:21:31.779
Okay, yeah, okay.
00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:33.284
And that's when you start your day.
00:21:33.284 --> 00:21:40.487
Yeah, cause I'll do the sauna and a shower, and so I do everything there, not every single day, but like four to five days a week I'm at the gym.
00:21:40.727 --> 00:21:41.888
Okay, okay.
00:21:41.888 --> 00:21:42.971
So let's talk about this.
00:21:42.971 --> 00:21:45.474
So this is a stem cell vitamin C serum.
00:21:45.474 --> 00:21:55.954
Okay, there's so many things about this, because I think that 2025 is really important for people to embrace the minimalism and we talk about this all the time, right?
00:21:55.954 --> 00:22:00.410
So minimalism is what's going to be trending, because we've gotten way overboard in the other direction.
00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:04.823
So more ingredients doing more things in one product, and we have the knowledge and the technology to do that.
00:22:04.823 --> 00:22:06.412
So more ingredients doing more things in one product, and we have the knowledge and the technology to do that.
00:22:06.412 --> 00:22:08.574
So, first of all, it comes in an airless pump.
00:22:09.576 --> 00:22:14.560
That's what that means Okay, well, I just like it because I can travel with it, look people, and then you can just really light.
00:22:14.701 --> 00:22:16.688
It's very lightweight, so hold on, let's get a pump.
00:22:16.688 --> 00:22:20.784
So it's very lightweight, which I like because we don't want anything pilling on the skin.
00:22:20.784 --> 00:22:23.309
Yeah, I love the smell of it.
00:22:23.711 --> 00:22:25.395
Yeah, it's like a grapefruit tangerine.
00:22:26.547 --> 00:22:29.874
It's weird, it's so, it's very lightweight, so you apply it.
00:22:29.874 --> 00:22:38.885
So basically, I do two to three pumps to my face, my neck and my chest right after cleansing in the morning, let it soak in and absorb.
00:22:38.885 --> 00:22:56.676
We always want a layer to fully absorb before we apply anything else, and the reason we want to do vitamin C in the morning is we're working with our circadian clock, so the minute our photoreceptors in our eyes and we have photoreceptors in our skin, which is actually pretty cool because if you have the lights on in your room.
00:22:56.765 --> 00:23:06.352
if you have lights on in your room and you have skin peeking out of the covers, you're not going to be able to sleep, Even if you have an eye mask on, because you've got photoreceptors in your skin.
00:23:06.471 --> 00:23:10.378
Oh no, Okay, there goes my whole.
00:23:10.378 --> 00:23:12.643
Okay, sorry, that's another.
00:23:12.643 --> 00:23:15.650
Arizona air conditioning windows.
00:23:15.650 --> 00:23:16.532
Open story.
00:23:16.633 --> 00:23:25.593
Okay, okay, so as soon as our photoreceptors in our eyes and our skin see the light, our body switches, all like the metabolic clocks in our body.
00:23:25.593 --> 00:23:30.760
We have these circadian clocks and all the enzyme processes are in like protect me mode.
00:23:31.306 --> 00:23:43.517
So, like protect me, protect me, protect me, protect me from UV radiation, protect me from all the environmental insults that we come into contact with, whether it's man-made pollution or you know the dust that's coming around with particles in it.
00:23:43.517 --> 00:23:51.675
And vitamin C is a really potent antioxidant for the skin, so this product also has vitamin E and ferulic acid in it.
00:23:51.675 --> 00:24:00.915
Okay, so ferulic acid is derived from curcumin, which your audience would like, so it's natural and it boosts the activity that's turmeric, people Turmeric.
00:24:01.266 --> 00:24:06.792
Yeah, turmeric, curcumin, ferulic acid, and it helps boost the activity of vitamin C.
00:24:06.792 --> 00:24:13.055
Okay, and it also has its own antioxidant properties Now with vitamin C traditionally.
